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Rules Questions Thread 2.0
8/11/2008 11:56:19 PM

rain

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Well it seems that the rules thread pulled a vanishing act on us, so in its honor: Rules question thread 2.0 Ask away


Alright, nearly 2 pages of questions on progenetius in the rules thread has spurred me to post this. I ask grimmer and everyone else not to answer any more questions about protection from everything.


Here are the 4 things you need to know about protection from everything.

1) Progenetius cannot be targeted by spells or abilities. That means if the spell says TARGET creature or permenant it can't choose progenetius. If it never mentions target creature or permenant your golden (re: wrath of god kills him)

2) Progenetius is unblockable. Period.

3) All damage to progenetius is prevented. If you pyroclasm for example, you do not pass go, you do not collect 200 dollars and you do not deal 2 points of damage to progenetius.

4) Progeneius cannot be equipped or enchanted. If you have some way to move an enchantment or equipment to progenetius without targeting him you can but it will fall off as a state based effect. An enchanment would go to the yard and an equipment would just sit there and laugh at you for being an idiot.


Thats it, unless you have a specific question about the way protection from everything interacts in unique situations STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM.


For the love of god, someone sticky this, if I see one more question about protection from everything Im going to off myself. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

11/21/2008 6:30:00 PM

theblackrecon

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for my questions above about my deck
f you can look at it and tell me how i can make it better so it wouldnt lose to a burn deck, or a burn deck using words of war.
or in general, how should i go up against a burn deck with a blue black deck?

11/21/2008 11:10:00 PM

Grimmer

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This thread is for rules questions. If you want people to look at your deck and rate it, please use another thread (such as the LOMA thread). I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

11/22/2008 12:59:00 AM

wierdsteve-LOMA-Iron Chef-CTV

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ok let me lay down a scenario then see if i am getting this. lets say i am player A and i have just been dealt enough damage during player B's turn, so now i am at 0 life. however during his turn, after he played the spell i pop out nourish and put myself 6 life before the beginning of my turn, thus saving me for another turn. is this thinking correct? eh and i issued an apology since some of what i say isnt as clear cut as you make it grimmer, and in actuality it has produced the desired result of im gettingbetter and better at the rules, but in any event i am working out this scenario and i think im correct, but i would like to know before i take any more steps comment on the deck "New Bant" and i will return the favor Iron Chef Mtg Competitor, come stop by the thread and see what is cooking on the site, lots of fun to be had!----------------------------------------------------- The angle of the dangle decreases with the sag of the bag, and increases in proportion to the heat of the meat compared to the mass of the ass and the beauty of the cutie.

11/22/2008 3:12:00 AM

EllE

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You didn't get it right.
"A player with 0 or less life loses the game."

If you drop to 0 life, you lose the game at once. since it is a State Based Effect. Same as if a creature has 0 or less in toughness.

What you could do, was to play the Nourish in responce to the effect that put you on 0 or less life. Moo.

11/23/2008 5:44:00 PM

theblackrecon

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question, if a token goes to the hand, does it die instead, and also, the card cone of flame, can you direct all damage to one target, or does it have to be 3 different targets, and can you play it if there are less than 3 targets on the field and a player?

11/23/2008 6:23:00 PM

SonicEagle

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whenever a token leaves play it is removed from the game and yes Cone of Flame needs 3 different targets. "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall." -Confucious ~ One of your MTGFanatic Mods!

11/23/2008 7:16:00 PM

theblackrecon

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what is the point of the ability "this creature deals damage in -1/-1 counters?"

11/23/2008 7:43:00 PM

Grimmer

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It basically allows the damage to remain on the creature longer than the duration of the turn. It also allows the creature to deal enough damage to kill an indestructible creature since it reduces the creature's Power/Toughness.

>>>whenever a token leaves play it is removed from the game

It isn't removed from the game... it ceases to exist. (You can't Wish for it or anything later.) I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

11/23/2008 7:56:00 PM

Vincent Mahoney

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"what is the point of the ability 'this creature deals damage in -1/-1 counters?'"

INdestructible creatures can now be killed in combat by other creatures (without using an activated or triggered ability of some sort).

1/1 creatures chump blocking are actually worth something now, as the result of the combat sticks around (IE, a 4/4 attacking and blocked by a 1/1 wither becomes a 3/3 since it has a -1/-1 counter on it now).

The point commonly seems not to kill, but to whittle away. Who wants their 0/5 Doran becoming a 0/2 because it foolishly blocked a 3/3 with wither? Though the Wither creature died, it still left it's mark on the now almost helpless Doran...

Wither makes creatures who aren't susceptible to damage (IE, their toughness is too high. Like playing Lash Out on a Demigod of Revenge) suddenly very, very weak.

Though, I prefer Deathtouch myself. =D I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

11/25/2008 8:24:00 AM

Test Rhun

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Rarity rules question: If a card is originally printed as one rarity, and then reprinted in later sets with a different rarity, say common to uncommon, does the original printing still count as a common for building a tournament deck, with restrictions on the number of uncommons? Epic Fail...{Project deck: The Electric Slide}

11/25/2008 9:25:00 AM

EllE

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Test: Yes, and all later editions can also be used as a common.(example: Mogg Fanatic is in 10th and TEM, can be used as common)
At least, that is how the common-kill format is where I am. Moo.

11/25/2008 3:40:00 PM

wierdsteve-LOMA-Iron Chef-CTV

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the reason i was asking EIIE, was due to the fact that i was a little confused due ot the fact that the rule says if your life hits 0 you lose the game when the next player recieves priority, since, i may be mistaken, priority doesnt shift until my opponent ends his turn......thats all im asking comment on the deck "New Bant" and i will return the favor Iron Chef Mtg Competitor, come stop by the thread and see what is cooking on the site, lots of fun to be had!----------------------------------------------------- The angle of the dangle decreases with the sag of the bag, and increases in proportion to the heat of the meat compared to the mass of the ass and the beauty of the cutie.

11/25/2008 4:15:00 PM

EllE

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Eh, thats turn(you knew that) and active/non-active player status that shifts there(The active player = the dude whos turn it is, but let us not delve into that).

Priority allows you to play spells or abilities, and since you are the non-active player, thats only Instants or abilities. You recieve priotiy whenever you opponent plays a spell, resolves a spell, shifts step or phase.
This is what allows you to counter spells and such.
This isn't so important(this might not be fully correct, but it isn't downright wrong, so you get the idea.), and you don't usually use this priotity in magic by saying it or anything, you just play.
Just know that you recieve and give priority away all the time, and therefore you die motsly instantly, without too much suffering :)

... Gah, I type too much here, back to danish paper. Moo.

11/25/2008 4:26:00 PM

theblackrecon

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lets say you play echoing decay on a grizzly bears, you let the effect go on the stack, wait till it resolves, then play a giant growth on the grizzly bears, does it stay alive or no?

lets say you have a grizzly bears and your opponent has festering goblin and goblin king. he plays terror, but then you play liberate to remove grizzly bears from the game for the turn, does he have to choose his goblin king as the target.

lets say you have grizzly bears, your opponent plays terror, and then you play liberate, does terror just go to the graveyard?

11/25/2008 4:27:00 PM

wierdsteve-LOMA-Iron Chef-CTV

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ah ok i was going by the decking assumption, you lose the game if you go to draw a card and cant. i was going along that line of thinking comment on the deck "New Bant" and i will return the favor Iron Chef Mtg Competitor, come stop by the thread and see what is cooking on the site, lots of fun to be had!----------------------------------------------------- The angle of the dangle decreases with the sag of the bag, and increases in proportion to the heat of the meat compared to the mass of the ass and the beauty of the cutie.

11/25/2008 5:00:00 PM

Grimmer

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Almost everything EllE said was correct, but I have one correction

>>>You recieve priotiy whenever you opponent plays a spell

After a player plays a spell, they get priority again. Both players will get priority before it resolves, but they get first chance to respond to their own spell and then you get priority. Then it resolves.

>>>lets say you play echoing decay on a grizzly bears, you let the effect go on the stack, wait till it resolves,

After a spell or ability resolves, SBEs are checked and then the active player gets priority. In this case, SBEs will see a Grizzly Bears with 0 toughness and it will be put into the graveyard before anyone gets priority to play Giant Growth.

>>>then play a giant growth on the grizzly bears, does it stay alive or no?

No. Since the Bears are no longer in play, you cannot even play the Giant Growth. If you try to play Giant Growth targeting the Grizzly Bears, you have performed an illegal action and the game will back you up to just before you played it. (You will untap your forest, etc. and return the Giant Growth to your hand. You are not forced to choose a legal target.)

>>>lets say you have a grizzly bears and your opponent has festering goblin and goblin king. he plays terror, but then you play liberate to remove grizzly bears from the game for the turn, does he have to choose his goblin king as the target.

No. In this case, they had a legal target when they played Terror. The legality of the target is re-checked when the Terror starts to resolve and sees that it no longer has any legal targets. Since all targets are illegal, the spell is countered upon resolution (i.e. it "Fizzles") and is put into the graveyard without effect.

>>>lets say you have grizzly bears, your opponent plays terror, and then you play liberate, does terror just go to the graveyard?

Yes, though it doesn't go when the Liberate resolves... it goes there when it tries to resolve and has no legal target. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

11/25/2008 10:27:00 PM

theblackrecon

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thank you.

11/25/2008 11:58:00 PM

wierdsteve-LOMA-Iron Chef-CTV

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ok here is another question, though it is not strickly a rule question. why do old cards like disintegrate say that if the creature is killed and cannot be regenerated this turn? if i remember correctly, creatures can only be regenerated on teh turn they were killed. or was this to prevent using some reanimation spell on it? comment on the deck "New Bant" and i will return the favor Iron Chef Mtg Competitor, come stop by the thread and see what is cooking on the site, lots of fun to be had!----------------------------------------------------- The angle of the dangle decreases with the sag of the bag, and increases in proportion to the heat of the meat compared to the mass of the ass and the beauty of the cutie.

11/26/2008 1:30:00 AM

EllE

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Just some wording: It even is on the Incinerate. I think it is to not create a confusion for newer players. They might imagine that once hit by the spell, it couldn't be regenerated evar again.

And what Grimmer said, yargh, the active player recieves priorit first :) Moo.

11/26/2008 2:32:00 PM

Grimmer

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>>>why do old cards like disintegrate say that if the creature is killed and cannot be regenerated this turn?

Under normal circumstances, a creature can be regenerated from being dealt damage by a burn spell. Incinerate/Disintegrate say that the creature can't be regenerated, so if the creature takes lethal damage this turn, regeneration won't keep it from going to the graveyard.

>>>if i remember correctly, creatures can only be regenerated on teh turn they were killed. or was this to prevent using some reanimation spell on it?

It is there to clarify that the lethal damage can't be replaced by regeneration. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

11/27/2008 11:08:00 AM

theblackrecon

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what is horsemanship?

to regenerate a creature, does it have to be untapped, and also, do you bring it to your hand?

11/27/2008 11:51:00 AM

Grimmer

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>>>what is horsemanship?

Horsemanship is an evasion ability from Portal Three Kingdoms. A creature with Horsemanship may only be blocked by another creature with Horsemanship.

>>>to regenerate a creature, does it have to be untapped, and also,

No. Tapping the creature is not a cost to regenerate it... it is one of the resulting effects of the creature's destruction being replaced by regeneration.

>>>do you bring it to your hand?

No. This is not involved in any way.

I put up a regeneration FAQ that might help here:
http://essentialmagic.com/forums/Thread.asp?ID=411915 I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

11/27/2008 12:07:00 PM

theblackrecon

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what is banding?

11/27/2008 12:18:00 PM

theblackrecon

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what is mana burn?

11/27/2008 4:16:00 PM

SonicEagle

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502.10. Banding

502.10a Banding is a static ability that modifies the rules for declaring attackers and assigning combat damage.

502.10b As a player declares attackers, he or she may declare that any number of those creatures with banding, and up to one of those creatures without banding, are all in a "band." All of those creatures must attack the same player or planeswalker. (Defending players can't declare bands but may use banding in a different way; see rule 502.10h.)

502.10c A player may declare as many attacking bands as he or she wants, but each creature may be a member of only one of them.

502.10d Once an attacking band has been announced, it lasts for the rest of combat, even if something later removes the banding ability from one or more creatures. However, creatures in a band that are removed from combat are also removed from the band.

502.10e If an attacking creature becomes blocked by a creature, each other creature in the same band as the attacking creature becomes blocked by that same blocking creature.
Example: A player attacks with a band consisting of a creature with flying and a creature with swampwalk. The defending player, who controls a Swamp, can block the flying creature if able. If he or she does, then the creature with swampwalk will also become blocked by the blocking creature(s).

502.10f Banding doesn't cause attacking creatures to share abilities, nor does it remove any abilities. The attacking creatures in a band are separate permanents.

502.10g If one member of a band would become blocked due to an effect, the entire band becomes blocked.

502.10h A player who controls an attacking creature with banding chooses how combat damage is assigned by creatures blocking that creature. A player who controls a blocking creature with banding chooses how combat damage is assigned by creatures it blocks. If the creature had banding when it attacked or blocked but the ability was removed before the combat damage step, damage is assigned normally.

502.10i Multiple instances of banding on the same creature are redundant.


300.3. When a phase ends (but not a step), any unused mana left in a player's mana pool is lost. That player loses 1 life for each one mana lost this way. This is called mana burn. Mana burn is loss of life, not damage, so it can't be prevented or altered by effects that affect damage. This game action doesn't use the stack. (See rule 406, "Mana Abilities.")



copied exactly from the magic rule book on the wizards website. "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall." -Confucious ~ One of your MTGFanatic Mods!
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