Rules Questions Thread 2.0

Rules Questions Thread 2.0
8/11/2008 11:56:19 PM

rain

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Well it seems that the rules thread pulled a vanishing act on us, so in its honor: Rules question thread 2.0 Ask away

Alright, nearly 2 pages of questions on progenetius in the rules thread has spurred me to post this. I ask grimmer and everyone else not to answer any more questions about protection from everything.

Here are the 4 things you need to know about protection from everything.

1) Progenetius cannot be targeted by spells or abilities. That means if the spell says TARGET creature or permenant it can't choose progenetius. If it never mentions target creature or permenant your golden (re: wrath of god kills him)

2) Progenetius is unblockable. Period.

3) All damage to progenetius is prevented. If you pyroclasm for example, you do not pass go, you do not collect 200 dollars and you do not deal 2 points of damage to progenetius.

4) Progeneius cannot be equipped or enchanted. If you have some way to move an enchantment or equipment to progenetius without targeting him you can but it will fall off as a state based effect. An enchanment would go to the yard and an equipment would just sit there and laugh at you for being an idiot.

Thats it, unless you have a specific question about the way protection from everything interacts in unique situations STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM.

For the love of god, someone sticky this, if I see one more question about protection from everything Im going to off myself. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

11/14/2008 2:17:00 AM

Rock Doc

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if the creature has any "comes into play" affects, they would still trigger because the creature came into play, then state based effects are checked, then it imidiatly leaves play. the only thing that goes on the stack is the comes into play ability The Mogg made a decent living cleaning up after the Hill Giants took a squat.

11/16/2008 7:26:00 PM

theblackrecon

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when a card has 0 toughness does it automatically die?

11/16/2008 8:19:00 PM

SonicEagle

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a creature with 0 or less toughness is placed in the graveyard. even indestructable creatures are placed in the graveyard if they have 0 or lower toughness. "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall." -Confucious ~ One of your MTGFanatic Mods!

11/17/2008 5:15:00 AM

Vincent Mahoney

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Just to clarify, it's done as a state based effect. This pretty much means that if whatever gave it 0 toughness resolved with no buff or anything on the creature, then the guy is placed into the graveyard before you're able to respond to it.

This means this can't happen:

Player A controls a Devoted Druid. Player B plays Last Gasp on the Druid. Player A allows it to resolve. Player A then plays Giant Growth... With nothing in play to buff. Game rolls back to before the Growth was played. Continue.

That was a dumb scenario, right? Why wouldn't the guy play the Growth when he had the chance? Sudden Death would like to enter the scenario:

Player A controls a Devoted Druid. Player B plays Sudden Death on the Druid. Player A cannot put new non-mana activated abilities or spells onto the stack, therefore it resolves. Player A CANNOT at this point play a Giant Growth to save his Druid, as it is already in the grave. I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

11/17/2008 4:06:00 PM

theblackrecon

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lets say you play a royal assassin, it can not tap to activate its ability when you play it, but when it becomes your opponents turn next, can it tap, or does it need haste?

11/17/2008 4:41:00 PM

Molar Mass

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Any creature you control has summoning sickness unless you've contolled it since the beggining of your most recent turn or if it has Haste.

In that example you won't be able to tap Royal Assassin yet since you did not control it until sometime during one of your mainphases on your last turn. My magic blog: http://theundergroundsea.blogspot.com/

11/18/2008 6:14:00 PM

theblackrecon

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lets say your opponent has 5 soilder tokens in play, and you cast a echoing decay on one, it says that you give -2/-2 to one creature, and all others with the same name, so if you play it on a token, do all the other tokens get -2/-2 as well. i ask this question, becasue in my deck that i use most often (The Royal House of Black) i need cards to fend off against a swarm type deck. leave comments on the deck as well.
thank you.

11/18/2008 7:05:00 PM

Vincent Mahoney

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Echoing Decay targets a creature then affects all creatures in play with the same name as it's target, so yes, you would kill all of the solider tokens. However, if YOU control any permanents without names (unlike the token from that Depths land and various others. However, solider tokens from Darien, King of Kjeldor have no names at all for comparison), They will get the -2/-2 as well. Keep this in mind in case you're playing against a bunch of token decks in multiplayer and everyone gangs up on you. ^_^

This holds true for each other Echoing spell. I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

11/18/2008 9:52:00 PM

Dennis

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If I sacrifice Protomatter Powder to return a Sanctum Gargoyle from the graveyard to play, can Sanctum Gargoyle's CIP ability return that Protomatter Powder to my hand?

11/19/2008 1:20:00 AM

EllE

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Yes.
Protomatter Powder is sacrificed as a part of the cost, and as such is in the graveyard long before the Gargoyle CIPs Moo.

11/19/2008 6:48:00 PM

theblackrecon

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creatures that have the ability "protection from creatures", are they also protected from creature abilities, or just damage, or both?

MEOW!

11/19/2008 10:56:00 PM

Grimmer

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Protection from ~something~ grants several benefits...

1. Damage from ~something~ sources is prevented
2. ~something~ Enchantments are put into the graveyard as a state-based effect
3. ~something~ Equipment becomes unattached
4. It can't be blocked by ~something~ creatures.
5. It can't be targeted by ~something~ spells or abilities.

If the creature has Protection from Creatures...

-Damage dealt to it by creatures is prevented
-It can't be blocked by creatures
-It can't be targeted by creature abilities

I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

11/20/2008 2:27:00 AM

wierdsteve-LOMA-Iron Chef-CTV

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though it should be pointed out for clarity sake if something has protection from a certain colour it can still be destroyed by that colour, so long as the spell is not specifically ( is that how you spell it? i dont know im tired). i know that sounds confusing so i will give an example. lets say you are sitting down with a friend for a nice game of magic, we label you as player A and your friend as player B. you control a creature that has protection from black. your friend taps avatar of woe to destroy your pro-black creature, you realize it wont work because avatar of woe is black and it wont work due to the pro black. so player B thinks a second, and plays damnation. since damnation does not target anything in particular, the pro black creature dies. it sounds a bit confusing but once you think of it enough, it makes sense, just remember it simply as protection from something means that it cannot be a legal target of the thing that it has protection from, however if it is not being targeted it can be destroyed. comment on the deck "New Bant" and i will return the favor Iron Chef Mtg Competitor, come stop by the thread and see what is cooking on the site, lots of fun to be had!----------------------------------------------------- The angle of the dangle decreases with the sag of the bag, and increases in proportion to the heat of the meat compared to the mass of the ass and the beauty of the cutie.

11/20/2008 3:17:00 AM

EllE

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wierdstive: You could call it a global spell. Still, that isn't entirely true.
Something with Protection from Red will still survive Pyroclasm, since that is damage. Moo.

11/20/2008 9:42:00 AM

Grimmer

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Use the above D-E-B-T (Damage, Enchant/Equip, Block, Target) method and, if the spell doesn't meet one of those requirements, then it still affects the permanent with protection. Some examples...

1. Mutilate gives all creatures -X/-X, so a creature with protection from black would be affected (It doesn't target or deal damage)

2. Damnation destroys all creatures so a creature with protection from black would be affected (It doesn't target or deal damage)

3. Evincar's Justice deals 2 damage to each creature and player. The damage it would deal to a creature with protection from black would be prevented.

>>>you control a creature that has protection from black. your friend taps avatar of woe to destroy your pro-black creature, you realize it wont work because avatar of woe is black and it wont work due to the pro black.

While this is true, it should be mentioned that an illegal action has been performed (the Avatar can't tap and target the pro-black creature), so the game immediately backs up to just before the illegal action (Avatar is untapped) and then continues. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

11/20/2008 3:57:00 PM

wierdsteve-LOMA-Iron Chef-CTV

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true i do know of things like pyroclasm, i simply thought that the original question was in regards to destroy effects, hence my example. i apologize for any confusion i may have caused but it is a valid example. magic is a complex game to which there are many different rules and sometimes rules to those rules, it is almost impossible to know them all, unless you are grimmer, i tip me hat to you. the one rule that i do know by heart is the magic the gathering golden rule, whatever the card says trumps whats in the rule book. comment on the deck "New Bant" and i will return the favor Iron Chef Mtg Competitor, come stop by the thread and see what is cooking on the site, lots of fun to be had!----------------------------------------------------- The angle of the dangle decreases with the sag of the bag, and increases in proportion to the heat of the meat compared to the mass of the ass and the beauty of the cutie.

11/20/2008 4:02:00 PM

wierdsteve-LOMA-Iron Chef-CTV

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as a side note i think an easy way to remember things like protection from whatever is look at the card in question. if for example you have a creature with pro black and your friend plays hex which says destroy six target creatures, or if a card says each creature then a pro creature wouldnt be affected because essentially it cannot be a target. however if something doesnt say target or each but simply destroy all creatures like plague wind, opposing forces, decree of pain, damnation, etc you still have a legal target comment on the deck "New Bant" and i will return the favor Iron Chef Mtg Competitor, come stop by the thread and see what is cooking on the site, lots of fun to be had!----------------------------------------------------- The angle of the dangle decreases with the sag of the bag, and increases in proportion to the heat of the meat compared to the mass of the ass and the beauty of the cutie.

11/20/2008 4:18:00 PM

Grimmer

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>>>however if something doesnt say target or each but simply destroy all creatures like plague wind, opposing forces, decree of pain, damnation, etc you still have a legal target

If it doesn't include the word "target", then it doesn't target at all. The only exception is that auras on the stack target the object they intend to enchant. As I stated above, the game will back up if you try to target something with protection. If there are only 6 creatures in play and one has protection from black, Hex cannot even be played. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

11/20/2008 4:38:00 PM

Mr. Safety

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Question:

I block a Wooly Thoctor with my Elvish Visionary. If I play Turn to Mist targeting the elf before damage is assigned, will Wooly Thoctor still be blocked? Mystical Tutor>>>>>Tinker>>>>>Darksteel Colossus>>>>>profit... (8*P

11/20/2008 4:49:00 PM

EllE

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Yargh, once a creature is blocked, it doesn't become unblocked.
Even if its blocker has disappeared. Moo.

11/20/2008 5:23:00 PM

Grimmer

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You could also wait until combat damage was on the stack to Turn to Mist the Visionary and the blocked Woolly Thoctar would still be dealt 1 damage. This might be useful if you had Lash Out or Incinerate in hand. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

11/20/2008 10:13:00 PM

theblackrecon

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this is a personal deck question:

for my deck "The Royal House of Black", i need it to be more composed, if you can please help me out on it. I also would like to know which pack do you think i should buy. i have been getting 10th edition. but i might switch to planar chaos, but then again, can you tell me what do you think would be a good pack to buy.

i very much appreciate this, thank you.
MEOW!

who has a gamertag?

11/21/2008 1:39:00 AM

wierdsteve-LOMA-Iron Chef-CTV

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ok here is where i apologize, i am sorry if i muddy the waters a bit. sometimes my explanations do not appear so solid and unlike grimmer i do not have a judge experience, i will attempt to do better so i do confuse anyone. again i apologize comment on the deck "New Bant" and i will return the favor Iron Chef Mtg Competitor, come stop by the thread and see what is cooking on the site, lots of fun to be had!----------------------------------------------------- The angle of the dangle decreases with the sag of the bag, and increases in proportion to the heat of the meat compared to the mass of the ass and the beauty of the cutie.

11/21/2008 1:12:00 PM

wierdsteve-LOMA-Iron Chef-CTV

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ok i have a question then, perhaps someone can tell me if i am reading this right. Rule 102.3b " if a players life total is 0 or less, he or she loses the game the next time a player would recieve priority". now im wondering is this in effect the same as when you deck someone, they dont lose until they try to draw their card and cant? what im trying to say is if you deal 20 damage to me during your turn, essentially i havent lost until my turn begins? priority has always messed me up comment on the deck "New Bant" and i will return the favor Iron Chef Mtg Competitor, come stop by the thread and see what is cooking on the site, lots of fun to be had!----------------------------------------------------- The angle of the dangle decreases with the sag of the bag, and increases in proportion to the heat of the meat compared to the mass of the ass and the beauty of the cutie.

11/21/2008 3:58:00 PM

Grimmer

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The rule you mention is one of several rules regarding the State-Based Effects (SBE). SBEs are checked anytime a player would get priority as well as during the Cleanup Step. They are the rules that regulate creatures going to the graveyard, players losing the game, enchantments going to the graveyard, tokens/copies of spells ceasing to exist, etc.

The SBE you describe is one of three that deals with the player losing the game. They are:
"A player with 0 or less life loses the game."
"A player with 10 or more poison counters loses the game."
"A player who is unable to draw a card when required to do so loses the game."

As you can see, they both will apply as soon as the situation occurs, but one (the card draw) generally only gets to apply during the Draw Step unless you find a way to make them draw a card with an empty library at some other time during the turn. If their library were empty and you used Jace Beleren's ability to make both players draw a card, then they would lose the game due to the 3rd SBE I listed above.

Also, don't get discouraged about my (what seems like) nitpicking. I went thru the same thing a few years back thanks to EvilBro on EssentialMagic and it helped me understand everything better. He drove me nuts correcting me all the time, but now I appreciate the same behavior that made me want to choke him at the time. I assure you I'm not nitpicking just to be aggravating. :) I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!