Rules Questions Thread 2.0
8/11/2008 11:56:19 PM

rain

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 		Well it seems that the rules thread pulled a vanishing act on us, so in its honor: Rules question thread 2.0 Ask away


Alright, nearly 2 pages of questions on progenetius in the rules thread has spurred me to post this. I ask grimmer and everyone else not to answer any more questions about protection from everything.


Here are the 4 things you need to know about protection from everything.

1) Progenitus cannot be targeted by spells or abilities. That means if the spell says TARGET creature or permenant it can't choose Progenitus. If it never mentions target creature or permenant your golden (re: wrath of god kills him)

2) Progenitus is unblockable. Period.

3) All damage to Progenitus is prevented. If you pyroclasm for example, you do not pass go, you do not collect 200 dollars and you do not deal 2 points of damage to Progenitus.

4) Progenitus cannot be equipped or enchanted. If you have some way to move an enchantment or equipment to Progenitus without targeting him you can but it will fall off as a state based effect. An enchanment would go to the yard and an equipment would just sit there and laugh at you for being an idiot.


Thats it, unless you have a specific question about the way protection from everything interacts in unique situations STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM.


For the love of god, someone sticky this, if I see one more question about protection from everything Im going to off myself. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

3/19/2009 3:50:00 PM

theblackrecon

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can you play remove soul on a kitchen finks when it is coming back from the graveyard with persist?

3/19/2009 4:04:00 PM

EllE

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No, as Kitchen Finks at that point isn't a spell, it is just getting returned.
EDIT:
theblackrecon: Stop updating the page every =P go back out of it, and come in, that way we avoid multiple posts :)
Moo.

3/19/2009 4:33:00 PM

The Artificer

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Just to add to that, if you were to trickbind or stifle the triggered Persist ability you would stop it from coming back in.
Latest deck project: The Awakening.~ KFC - Kentucky Fried Children. ~ Author of Casual Carnage. Join the fray every Wednesday.

3/19/2009 4:56:00 PM

theblackrecon

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does an island count as a blue permanent?

3/19/2009 5:00:00 PM

rain

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No, lands are colorless unless something says otherwise (ie: painter's servant naming blue makes lands blue)
Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

3/20/2009 2:25:00 PM

Shiku

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Old school question:

If you fork a fireball do you get to do 2X damage ?!?!? I believe not because X would be zero for the forked ball but could you pay it ?

Thank you

3/20/2009 2:37:00 PM

rain

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10/4/2004 Forking a spell with an X in the cost requires you to use the same X value.
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3/20/2009 2:38:00 PM

rain

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To clarify: fork copies the value of X of the original spell.
Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

3/20/2009 6:29:00 PM

Shiku

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So you do get to do 2X damage with a fireball !!!
Awesome !!!!

3/20/2009 6:38:00 PM

Shiku

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Another one:

What happens when a creature with fading gets removed from the game and then returned to play ?!? Does it come back with the same number of counters as it would have if it was just cast ?

3/20/2009 7:29:00 PM

EllE

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Yep, as fading states : "This creature comes into play with X fade counters on it".

And since it is RFG'ed, and then comes into play...
Moo.

3/20/2009 11:33:00 PM

WAS_BMOC

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today I was playing agianst my friend. he had 3 hissing miasma and an ajani goldmane out. I had a mortivore and 3 font of mythos in play so we were drawing 7 cards a turn. I was down to my last card and was about to deck out next turn. and I only had 3 life left. and my friends had exactly 7 cards left in his deck ad wouldnt dekc out befor me. I figured, if im gonan lose next turn ANYWAYS. I'll just atack and kill the goldmane (since my mortivore was a 20/20 or so.

my friend says that attacking goldmane is attacking him because its a permanent he controls, so i lose 3 life and die. I say that its a permanent he contorl NOT him. so hissing miasma doenst trigger so I lose nothing, his ajanni dies, and i deck out next turn. lol

who is right?

3/20/2009 11:34:00 PM

WAS_BMOC

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also. I have a question about being unable to draw a card. since I've found ti hard to find a clear answer. do you lose at the end of your turn? or when your unable to? or sometime inbetween?

3/21/2009 2:47:00 AM

The Artificer

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When you are required to draw and cannot you lose the game immediately as a triggered effect. If you have an empty library you remain alive until something causes you to have to draw a card, be this your draw step or a spell, it doesn't matter.
Latest deck project: The Awakening.~ KFC - Kentucky Fried Children. ~ Author of Casual Carnage. Join the fray every Wednesday.

3/21/2009 8:31:00 AM

Grimmer

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>>>my friend says that attacking goldmane is attacking him because its a permanent he controls, so i lose 3 life and die. I say that its a permanent he contorl NOT him. so hissing miasma doenst trigger so I lose nothing, his ajanni dies, and i deck out next turn. lol who is right?

You are correct. If you are attacking his Planeswalker, you are not attacking him. You will not lose any life in this scenario. This is the same reason that Ghostly Prison and Propaganda costs don't have to be paid if you attack a Planeswalker.

>>>When you are required to draw and cannot you lose the game immediately as a triggered effect.

It is a state-based effect, not a triggered ability. Otherwise, this is correct. You lose the game immediately. Triggered abilities would go to the stack and wouldn't resolve until both players passed priority. State-based effects are checked and resolve before the above-mentioned trigger would even get put on the stack.
I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

3/21/2009 2:52:00 PM

Black Rose

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If a creature with protection from white blocks a rhox war monk, liflink does not trigger correct? What if rhox war monk had trample, how would the damage step go?

If a creature is equipped or enchanted so it gain extra abilities/power/toughness and a snakeform is played on that card, how would that resolve? The abilities say "equipped/enchanted creature get" so the creature would be a 1/1 regardless of buffs played BEFORE snakeform resolves correct?

3/21/2009 3:30:00 PM

EllE

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1: Correct, since the damage is prevented, it isn't dealt.
If it had trample, you'd have to assign lethal damage to the blocker, and the rest could be dealt to the player. The blocker would still prevent damage, but you'd get life from the damage that goes through to the player.

2: Gah, snakeform. This is "layer rules" complicated stuff.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15173964#post15173964

It depends on what the equipment gives. If it is abilites, they are in layer 5, and are removed, since Snakeform applies in layer 6.b. If they boost P/T, it is in layer 6.d and will be a 1/1 + whatever the attached permanent grants the creature.


"The abilities say "equipped/enchanted creature get" so the creature would be a 1/1 regardless of buffs played BEFORE snakeform resolves correct?"

This I am not sure what you mean. BEFORE snakeform resolves, the creature is whatever it is.
Moo.

3/22/2009 1:37:00 AM

rain

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The abilities say "equipped/enchanted creature get" so the creature would be a 1/1 regardless of buffs played BEFORE snakeform resolves correct?

No,
Layer 6:
B:All other effects not specifically applied in another sublayer. (Giant Growth, Serendib Sorcerer)
C:Changes from counters
D:Effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value (Glorious Anthem, Leonin Scimitar)

If a spell with an effect like giant growth is played on a creature and then it is snake formed it becomes a 1/1
If an artifact/enchantment/+1/+1 counter is on a creature and it is snaked formed it becomes a 1/1 and then gains the bonuses of those artifacts etc because they are static effects.
Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

3/25/2009 7:40:00 PM

Iron Chef NiKo aka Johnny

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My opponent cast Goblin Grenade and sacrifices his goblin, I unsummon his gobboman, sacrificing is the fastest effect but since it's part of the sorcery spell the unsummon happened first. The way I played it, the gobboman is returned to his hand, the gobboman grenade fizzled and went to the yard. No damage was dealt, did I do that correctly?
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3/25/2009 9:14:00 PM

Grimmer

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No. Sacrifice means "put into the graveyard from play". Unsummon can only target a creature while it is in play. Once they announce the Goblin Grenade, they must pay all costs including the sacrificing of a goblin. They will get priority again before passing to you, allowing you to play Unsummon, but at that time the goblin is no longer in play and, thus, no longer a legal target for the Unsummon.
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3/25/2009 10:19:00 PM

DonQuixote

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The sacrifice is part of the cost of playing the spell. It cannot be reacted to. The spell goes onto the stack AFTER costs are paid, at which point it can be countered. This is the same reason you dont get your mana back when a spell is countered. Costs are paid and done, before the opponent receives priority, so no time to "react"
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3/26/2009 12:29:00 PM

Iron Chef NiKo aka Johnny

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I see that now because the oracle text reads as part of the casting cost, on my old alliance cards it does not say that. Thanks for the answer.
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3/26/2009 2:04:00 PM

Krovikan LOMA

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Exactly what creature types does a creature with changeling have? I was really cuirous, wondering if they could be blinkmoths, like for blinkmoth nexus, or could be considered a "locus" for cloudpost.
"If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it"-Volrath

3/26/2009 2:47:00 PM

Grimmer

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>>>yes they would be considered blink moths or locust.

"Locus" is not a creature subtype, it is a land subtype. "Blinkmoth Nexus" is a card name, not a subtype of any permanent. Mutavaults and Changelings do not have the "Locus" subtype and do not increase the amount of mana that Cloudposts produce.

>>>I was wondering how they worked with coat of arms, but due to an errata change, they can only get 1 bonus from 1 creature type. That would be funny if 2 changelings+coat of arms would equate to having 2 500/500(or bigger) creature in play.

There has been no errata. They have always worked the same way. It clearly states that a creature gets a bonus for each other creature that shares a type with it. No matter how many creature types they share, it is still just one creature.
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3/26/2009 5:00:00 PM

Justin4lyf

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Pariah Question:

This is actually kind of an old question that I never got resolved when I played this deck... so here goes:

I have a mirrorwood treefolk out with pariah. I get attacked by an opponent that has 5 creatures. I choose to declare no blockers. All of the damage hits me and is redirected to mirrorwood treefolk. I activate mirrorwood's ability. I get that. Now my question is, does all the damage become a single source considering this: All of the combat damage resolves at the same time. All of the damage is being redirected once it resolves to the mirrorwood treefolk.

So can I redirect the attack damage of 5 creatures in one ability cost, or would I have to pay for each creature as a separate source?
Can you check out "Silly Shenanigans"? I am looking for some useful tweaks if you have any ideas that'd be great.
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