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Rules Questions Thread 2.0
8/11/2008 11:56:19 PM

rain

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Well it seems that the rules thread pulled a vanishing act on us, so in its honor: Rules question thread 2.0 Ask away


Alright, nearly 2 pages of questions on progenetius in the rules thread has spurred me to post this. I ask grimmer and everyone else not to answer any more questions about protection from everything.


Here are the 4 things you need to know about protection from everything.

1) Progenetius cannot be targeted by spells or abilities. That means if the spell says TARGET creature or permenant it can't choose progenetius. If it never mentions target creature or permenant your golden (re: wrath of god kills him)

2) Progenetius is unblockable. Period.

3) All damage to progenetius is prevented. If you pyroclasm for example, you do not pass go, you do not collect 200 dollars and you do not deal 2 points of damage to progenetius.

4) Progeneius cannot be equipped or enchanted. If you have some way to move an enchantment or equipment to progenetius without targeting him you can but it will fall off as a state based effect. An enchanment would go to the yard and an equipment would just sit there and laugh at you for being an idiot.


Thats it, unless you have a specific question about the way protection from everything interacts in unique situations STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM.


For the love of god, someone sticky this, if I see one more question about protection from everything Im going to off myself. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

2/7/2009 10:38:00 PM

Dennis

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>>Say I attack with a creature, then they block with one of their creatures. I can play unsummon but my creature is still considered blocked. Why if I play agony warp instead of unsummon to kill his creature, mine is considered unblocked?

The steps of the Combat Phase are on some other page in this thread, I'm sure, but I don't remember which.

If a creature is declared a blocker, then the attacker is still considered blocked. You could've however declared attackers, and before you give them a chance to assign blockers, you could Unsummoned or Agony Warped. Otherwise you let them assign blockers.

There is no "before blocking resolves". If you give them priority to assign blockers, you can't have your creatures unblocked because they decided on a blocker you didn't like. After they assign blockers though, you will however have a chance to play spells before damage is assigned.

If you Unsummon the blocker before damage is on the stack, then again no damage will be dealt. Damage will only be dealt if you waited to assign damage before playing Unsummon.

Same thing with Agony Warp. It depends when you played it, but in either case, your attacker will be considered block.

>> Question on pandemonium, when a green creature comes into play and I have it deal damage to a player. is that a green damage or a red damage from panemonium?

It will be green damage, since Pandemonium's wording says:
"Whenever a creature comes into play, that creature's controller may have __it__ deal damage equal to its power to target creature or player of his or her choice." with __it__ being the creature and not Pandemonium.

2/8/2009 10:42:00 AM

rain

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Say I attack with a creature, then they block with one of their creatures. I can play unsummon but my creature is still considered blocked. Why if I play agony warp instead of unsummon to kill his creature, mine is considered unblocked?

Because the judge was retarded. Once a creature is blocked it is blocked unless there is some effect out there that says the creature is now unblocked. Unsummon and agnony warp (assuming the warp kills the creature) have the same immediate effect, the blocking creature is no longer in play. Your creature is blocked if you let him declare blockers, end of story. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

2/8/2009 1:01:00 PM

The Planeswalker

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can u list the steps in order, upkeep, draw etc

2/8/2009 1:19:00 PM

Vincent Mahoney

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Beginning phase [Untap, upkeep, draw step], precombat main phase, combat phase [beginning of combat step, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat damage, end of combat step], postcombat main phase, end phase [end of turn and cleanup step]. I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

2/8/2009 1:38:00 PM

The Planeswalker

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thank you! My judge was really stupid, he kept telling me that the untap step is the beggining of your first main phase, I'd file a complaint but I think he has enough against him already

2/8/2009 3:23:00 PM

Shad Mckinley

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Thanks for answers in the past to all those that helped, and thanks in advance for these couple. Grimmer is like a machine, hope you are getting kick backs from site ;)

Pretty sure on this one but someone argued it with me the other day. 1. Having more than one repercussion out stacks doesnt it? Each card being its own seperate source of damage?

2. What happens to permanents that a player already has enchantments on if i play 'Priviliged Position'. For example, They have one of my guys confiscated, another has a white pacify on it and the third has an oblivion ring. Do they fall off? Im guessing oring would stay because card it is targeting is removed from game?

3. Do the set of lands like watery grave, Overgrown tomb etc count as both types of land? Swamp and forest making you succeptable to forest and swampwalk? but also letting you use cards that look for swamps or forests to dig them up. Or counting as both a plains and forest for qasali ambushers? Retired from site. Tired of trolls who rate you poorly just to get you off some worthless list. Gl to all the other people i met who were cool.

2/8/2009 3:59:00 PM

The Planeswalker

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3. Yes, they count as both lands for whatever purpose that may be, land walking, basic land TYPES, fetchlands, all that jazz including the ambusher

2/8/2009 4:09:00 PM

Shad Mckinley

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So for ambusher i can play Temple Garden on my first turn and then drop him if someone attacks me? We were debating on this the other night since i controlled only one land but i controlled a forest and i controlled a plains by having temple out. Retired from site. Tired of trolls who rate you poorly just to get you off some worthless list. Gl to all the other people i met who were cool.

2/8/2009 4:13:00 PM

The Planeswalker

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yes, it is considered both so technically u control both which meets the requirements to freeflash him out

2/8/2009 4:38:00 PM

The Artificer

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Shad:

1. If you have multiple repurcussions in play, stack away.

2. If you have permanents that are already enchanted with things like pacifism when you play the privileged position those enchantments stick. It works like this:

Layer 1: Permanent comes into play and resolves
Layer 2: Permanent is enchanted and enchantment resolves
Layer 3: Privileged Position is played granting shroud to your other permanents. Since the auras already resolved in layer 2, Privileged Position does not affect them. The permanents gain shroud, so further auras won't be able to target them but the first ones stay.

The example I tell people to think of when dealing with these types of problems is to think of it like layers of paint on your walls. There may be others beneath the surface, but you can only see the most recent one.

Also, as for the o-ring. That is still controlled by an opponent so you can pop it off with a disenchant or something and you'll get your permanent back. Privileged Position has no bearing on auras controlled by your opponent (this also means that you can shoot the pacifism etc. after playing Privileged Position). ~Latest deck project: Memories of Blood. Any help would be appreciated.~ "Misery loves company. Idiocy loves attention."

2/8/2009 5:16:00 PM

The Analyst and the Skeptic

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I have a question...

Okay..if my GW creature has Shield of the Oversoul, (making it indestructible) and then my opponent uses Violent Ultimatum, could he destroy my GW creature right after targeting the Shield of Oversoul or you can't?

I don't know if it happens simultaneously or what not. Please let me kno

2/8/2009 5:19:00 PM

The Artificer

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Again, this is a question of which resolves first. At the time that violent ultimatum is put on the stack, your critter is indestructible. It cannot be destroyed by violent ultimatum. It the ultimatum kills its aura, the creature does not become vulnerable until after violent ultimatum's effects resolve. In short, no, the ultimatum cannot kill both. ~Latest deck project: Memories of Blood. Any help would be appreciated.~ "Misery loves company. Idiocy loves attention."

2/8/2009 5:45:00 PM

Shad Mckinley

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Ahh, I was curious because Grimmer said if something had a blue enchantment on it and i gave it protection from blue that enchantment would fall off. Thought shroud might work retroactively in the same way.

Was guessing if it did, it wouldnt help with oring because the creature thats targeting would be removed from the game and not gain the shroud. Retired from site. Tired of trolls who rate you poorly just to get you off some worthless list. Gl to all the other people i met who were cool.

2/8/2009 5:51:00 PM

The Artificer

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...the enchantment does not fall off if the thing is given pro blue. It only protects it from effects post-protection. I know that for sure. The rules of protection do not state that effects that have resolved prior to protection become nullified. ~Latest deck project: Memories of Blood. Any help would be appreciated.~ "Misery loves company. Idiocy loves attention."

2/8/2009 5:59:00 PM

The Artificer

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^ nvm. checked the comp rules. My bad, sorry grim. ~Latest deck project: Memories of Blood. Any help would be appreciated.~ "Misery loves company. Idiocy loves attention."

2/8/2009 5:59:00 PM

The Analyst and the Skeptic

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Thanks,Artificer LOMA....

Well-explained

2/8/2009 9:00:00 PM

Grimmer

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No prob, Artificer :) Protection from -something- essentially gives the creature shroud from anything that meets the -something- criteria, but in addition it says the creature can't be enchanted by -something- auras, which is what makes them "fall off". I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

2/8/2009 10:17:00 PM

Shad Mckinley

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hmm so im still confused. If i give all my creatures protection from blue all blue enchantments will fall off them right.

If i play Priviliged Position and give them all shroud it seems the same situation and all enchantments would fall off as well.

Retired from site. Tired of trolls who rate you poorly just to get you off some worthless list. Gl to all the other people i met who were cool.

2/8/2009 10:31:00 PM

Molar Mass

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Aura's (creature enchantments as you say) don't target once they become permanents, they only target when they are on the stack. Here:

415.3. Aura spells are always targeted. An Aura’s target is specified by its enchant keyword ability (see rule 502.45, “Enchant”). An Aura permanent doesn’t target anything; only the spell is targeted. An activated or triggered ability of an Aura permanent can be targeted.

Protection however, specifically states that enchanting/equiping is forbidden. My magic blog: http://theundergroundsea.blogspot.com/

2/9/2009 6:21:00 AM

J@irusPerfect

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Qustionon "Confusion of ranks", If my opponent only has one creature in play and it is a troll ascetic, i played mogg fanatic. can i choose troll ascetic as a target for us to swap the creatures?

2/9/2009 8:33:00 AM

Grimmer

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No.

Troll Ascetic
Troll Ascetic can’t be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.

Confusion in the Ranks
Whenever an artifact, creature, or enchantment comes into play, its controller chooses TARGET permanent another player controls that shares a type with it. Exchange control of those permanents. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

2/9/2009 9:45:00 AM

The Artificer

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If his opponent controlled confusion in the ranks it would work. ~Latest deck project: Memories of Blood. Any help would be appreciated.~ "Misery loves company. Idiocy loves attention."

2/9/2009 1:07:00 PM

Rick Barrs

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hokay...question.

i'm trying to abuse lich's tomb. sayi take 6 damage, so i sac 6 permanents. i'm looking at goblin sharpshooter. here's my question:

do my sac'd perms go one at a time, so i can untap sharpshooter, ping, sac, untap, ping, sac, etc....or do they all hit the graveyard at once? (>^.^)>So long Iron Chef, you will be missed! IRON CHEF challenges: Mudhole, Cerebral Vortex, Mist of Stagnation, Ice Cave, Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar, Homarid Spawning Bed...Record: 4-2<(^.^<)

2/9/2009 1:41:00 PM

Grimmer

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>>>do my sac'd perms go one at a time, so i can untap sharpshooter, ping, sac, untap, ping, sac, etc....or do they all hit the graveyard at once?

Everything goes to the graveyard at once, but the triggers go on the stack one at a time. After each Sharpshooter trigger resolves, it will untap and you can ping something else. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

2/9/2009 3:48:00 PM

Rick Barrs

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excellent! thank you! (>^.^)>So long Iron Chef, you will be missed! IRON CHEF challenges: Mudhole, Cerebral Vortex, Mist of Stagnation, Ice Cave, Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar, Homarid Spawning Bed...Record: 4-2<(^.^<)
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