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Rules Questions Thread 2.0
8/11/2008 11:56:19 PM

rain

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Well it seems that the rules thread pulled a vanishing act on us, so in its honor: Rules question thread 2.0 Ask away


Alright, nearly 2 pages of questions on progenetius in the rules thread has spurred me to post this. I ask grimmer and everyone else not to answer any more questions about protection from everything.


Here are the 4 things you need to know about protection from everything.

1) Progenetius cannot be targeted by spells or abilities. That means if the spell says TARGET creature or permenant it can't choose progenetius. If it never mentions target creature or permenant your golden (re: wrath of god kills him)

2) Progenetius is unblockable. Period.

3) All damage to progenetius is prevented. If you pyroclasm for example, you do not pass go, you do not collect 200 dollars and you do not deal 2 points of damage to progenetius.

4) Progeneius cannot be equipped or enchanted. If you have some way to move an enchantment or equipment to progenetius without targeting him you can but it will fall off as a state based effect. An enchanment would go to the yard and an equipment would just sit there and laugh at you for being an idiot.


Thats it, unless you have a specific question about the way protection from everything interacts in unique situations STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM.


For the love of god, someone sticky this, if I see one more question about protection from everything Im going to off myself. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

2/6/2009 9:06:00 AM

Mr. Safety

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Why doesn't 'protection from everything' = protection from sorceries, enchantments, and instants. Doesn't everything mean, well, EVERYTHING??? I understand he doesn't have shroud, so he is targetable, but protection is not the same as shroud. This seems very vague, and I would need some official rulings to clear it for me. I checked out gatherer for oracle text, but there isn't anything there, not even in official rulings.

Mystical Tutor>>>>>Tinker>>>>>Darksteel Colossus>>>>>profit... (8*P

2/6/2009 9:07:00 AM

Mr. Safety

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If he said 'protection from all colors', I would understand it, but when it says everything, it is quite vague.

Remember Mindslaver? That was pretty vague, too, lol. Mystical Tutor>>>>>Tinker>>>>>Darksteel Colossus>>>>>profit... (8*P

2/6/2009 10:08:00 AM

The Planeswalker

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look at page 22 where rain clears up the issue

2/6/2009 10:56:00 AM

The Artificer

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When dealing with protection, remember DEBT:

D: Damage is prevented
E: Enchantments and Auras do not affect it nor can they target it
B: Blockers with the stated attribute cannot block protected creature
*T: Cannot be assigned as a target. This means it is immune to instants, sorceries, activated abilities, triggered abilities, and any other spell or ability with a "target" clause. This also means Progentuis can't be equipped.

*Just a note on targeting: WRATH OF GOD DOES NOT TARGET. Progentius goes down like a sack of potatoes like any other non-indestructible creature when a Wrath or Damnation (or any of their cousin spells) hits the board.

Protection from everything gives that creature the immunity to every targeting or assigned permanent or spell (permanents includes lands, spells includes artifacts). ~Latest deck project: Memories of Blood. Any help would be appreciated.~ "Misery loves company. Idiocy loves attention."

2/6/2009 12:07:00 PM

Grimmer

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Some clarification on the above...

Protection from SOMETHING grants several benefits...
Damage from SOMETHING sources is prevented
It can't be equipped by SOMETHING equipment
It can't be enchanted by SOMETHING auras
It can't be blocked by SOMETHING creatures
It can't be targeted by SOMETHING spells or abilities

So with Progenitus...
Damage from everything is prevented.
It can't be equipped by anything.
It can't be enchanted by anything.
It can't be blocked by any creatures.
It can't be targeted by anything.

Wrath of God doesn't do any of these so that is why the protection doesn't stop the Wrath from killing it. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

2/6/2009 12:15:00 PM

The Planeswalker

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i swear wizards printed progenitus just to give people headaches...and it worked

2/6/2009 1:17:00 PM

The Artificer

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I swear they printed it because they knew it would drive some dude named grimmer up the wall.

~edit~
I need a quick clarification: summoning sickness wears off at the beginning of your turn, not beginning of upkeep correct? ~Latest deck project: Memories of Blood. Any help would be appreciated.~ "Misery loves company. Idiocy loves attention."

2/6/2009 2:07:00 PM

Grimmer

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Correct. It wears off when your turn begins, regardless of what step/phase actually begins your turn.

About the only part of the rules that actually drives me up the wall is those @#$@^@% layers, though I'm getting better at them. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

2/6/2009 5:26:00 PM

Crazy Carlito

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Would Damnation and Bad Mood be good in a withering deck?

2/6/2009 6:11:00 PM

Krovikan LOMA

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If master transmuter puts a ethersworn adjudicator into play at the end of an opponent's turn, can it attack and tap on your turn then? "If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it"-Volrath

2/6/2009 6:31:00 PM

FiremÆne

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Yes, a creature just has to be in play when your turn begins for it to lose summoning sickness. MTG Lvl 1 Judge and one of your MTGFanatic Moderators! Birds of Paradise Count: 28

2/6/2009 7:57:00 PM

Vincent Mahoney

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Carlito- I think you might be in the wrong thread for asking about what cards would be good for what deck. You could make a new thread, or post in the LOMA thread about it (where it would be appropriate to have such a debate). I'll give you my two cents to be polite: I consider Damnation/Wrath effects to be a must in decks that cannot out survive the crest-point of aggro (if your buddy plays a beatdown that religiously kills on turn 5, then you had best be able to kill him or reduce his win conditions so you can survive that turn). Bad Moon is good if your opponents run nonbasics, so that's really up to you.

So, to be on topic, I got into a rules argument with a buddy of mine. I Ghostway'ed on my opponents end step. He looked at me puzzled. During my turn, I Wrath'ed. The at end of turn, I put my creatures back into play. He immediately became pissed.

The argument was about the timing of Ghostway. I clearly remember something from StarCityGames stating that if you Ghostway after the end step has already begun, then the creatures removed won't come back until the NEXT end step. Unfortunately, I could not pull the page since SCGs took down their Ask the Judge section, and he was vehemently angry since the move cost him the game.

So, I'm here to ask for clarification. Am I just crazy? I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

2/6/2009 9:53:00 PM

Grimmer

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>>>Bad Moon is good if your opponents run nonbasics, so that's really up to you.

Bad Moon != Blood Moon :)

>>>So, I'm here to ask for clarification. Am I just crazy?

Your play is correct. Ghostway sets up a delayed "at end of turn" trigger that will trigger the next time an End Step begins. Since you waited until their End Step had begun (and thus all triggers had been put on the stack) then the Ghostway you play after that point won't trigger until your End Step. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

2/6/2009 10:44:00 PM

Vincent Mahoney

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Oh yeah. I forgot there were two moons. I just thought he was doing a red/black wither deck. >_>;

Thanks for clearing that up, Grimmer. I'll have him read this page. And eat it. =D I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

2/7/2009 2:11:00 AM

rain

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"i swear wizards printed progenitus just to give people headaches"

Wizards printed progenetus the way they did for the same reason they printed wither the way they did: they made the fatal assumption that most players would let a simple thing be a simple thing instead of acting like tightly wound assholes.

Really, its very simple: Protection from everything works exactly like protection from green. Just replace all instances of the word green with everything and there you go. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

2/7/2009 4:03:00 AM

Crazy Carlito

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Actually bad moon gives black creaturess +1/+1. When Blood Moon turns all nonbasic lands into mountians. So again how did you get bad moon=blood moon?

2/7/2009 4:08:00 AM

Crazy Carlito

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What are true weakiness to a wither deck?

2/7/2009 9:33:00 AM

Vincent Mahoney

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I got confused. Sheesh. They both begin with B's, and end with the word Moon. Honest to God mistake. >_>; I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

2/7/2009 11:39:00 AM

Crazy Carlito

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What are true weakiness to a wither deck?

2/7/2009 11:43:00 AM

Grimmer

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Damage prevention? Do you have a rules question? I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

2/7/2009 11:49:00 AM

The Planeswalker

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Vance this is the rules thread, don't post here with questions on your deck, post with questions about the rules. Go to loma for questions like that

2/7/2009 12:06:00 PM

The Planeswalker

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Say I attack with a creature, then they block with one of their creatures. I can play unsummon but my creature is still considered blocked. Why if I play agony warp instead of unsummon to kill his creature, mine is considered unblocked?

2/7/2009 1:57:00 PM

Vincent Mahoney

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It is? O_o; I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

2/7/2009 3:07:00 PM

The Planeswalker

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that's what the judge said but I have no idea why that is, he said "unummon removes them from the field but it was still declared a blocker, agony warp destroys the creature entirely and goes on the stack above the creature being declared a blacker, this removing it before the blocking resolves. The same thing happens when u play unsummon on an attacker, it still deals damage. However if agony warp kills the attacker then no damage is dealt." he wouldn't explain anymore because he was "busy". I just really don't get it, I can see since agony warp takes his power to 0 it may happen or something but what if u don't target his power for -3? It was very confusing

2/7/2009 6:17:00 PM

J@irusPerfect

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Question on pandemonium, when a green creature comes into play and I have it deal damage to a player. is that a green damage or a red damage from panemonium?
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