Rules Questions Thread 2.0

Rules Questions Thread 2.0
8/11/2008 11:56:19 PM

rain

Threads Started: 46
Forum Posts: 439
Magic Decks: 46
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 0
Skill Level: 0

Well it seems that the rules thread pulled a vanishing act on us, so in its honor: Rules question thread 2.0 Ask away

Alright, nearly 2 pages of questions on progenetius in the rules thread has spurred me to post this. I ask grimmer and everyone else not to answer any more questions about protection from everything.

Here are the 4 things you need to know about protection from everything.

1) Progenetius cannot be targeted by spells or abilities. That means if the spell says TARGET creature or permenant it can't choose progenetius. If it never mentions target creature or permenant your golden (re: wrath of god kills him)

2) Progenetius is unblockable. Period.

3) All damage to progenetius is prevented. If you pyroclasm for example, you do not pass go, you do not collect 200 dollars and you do not deal 2 points of damage to progenetius.

4) Progeneius cannot be equipped or enchanted. If you have some way to move an enchantment or equipment to progenetius without targeting him you can but it will fall off as a state based effect. An enchanment would go to the yard and an equipment would just sit there and laugh at you for being an idiot.

Thats it, unless you have a specific question about the way protection from everything interacts in unique situations STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM.

For the love of god, someone sticky this, if I see one more question about protection from everything Im going to off myself. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

2/2/2009 12:18:00 AM

FiremÆne

Threads Started: 45
Forum Posts: 2211
Magic Decks: 81
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 120
Skill Level: Expert

Yep. Also, he can't be equipped. MTG Lvl 1 Judge and one of your MTGFanatic Moderators! Birds of Paradise Count: 28

2/2/2009 12:20:00 AM

The Planeswalker

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 59
Forum Posts: 3921
Magic Decks: 174
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 61
Skill Level: Unknown

what about my question about quirion Druid?

2/2/2009 12:24:00 AM

FiremÆne

Threads Started: 45
Forum Posts: 2211
Magic Decks: 81
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 120
Skill Level: Expert

oh, I didn't see that (was it edited?)
You only get one +1/+1 counter, since the Dryad's ability triggers whenever you play a spell, so you cannot have more than one trigger per spell played. MTG Lvl 1 Judge and one of your MTGFanatic Moderators! Birds of Paradise Count: 28

2/2/2009 1:21:00 AM

Vincent Mahoney

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 66
Forum Posts: 1255
Magic Decks: 81
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 50
Skill Level: Unknown

Whoops. Sorry about the Progenitus thing. I thought the card said when, not if it goes to the grave. >_>; I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

2/2/2009 7:56:00 AM

The Planeswalker

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 59
Forum Posts: 3921
Magic Decks: 174
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 61
Skill Level: Unknown

I made the same mistake vincent -_-;

2/2/2009 8:49:00 AM

Grimmer

Threads Started: 2
Forum Posts: 570
Magic Decks: 0
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 0
Skill Level: Expert

Re: Progenitus

Based on the rules of protection...
Any damage dealt to Progenitus is prevented.
Progenitus can't be equipped or enchanted.
Progenitus can't be blocked.
Progenitus can't be targeted.

Replacement effects are either damage prevention abilities or get identified by the word "instead" (not the word "if"). This is an important distinction to make, since there is such a thing as a "conditional-if" trigger.

>>>If he is somehow sent to the yard he will interact with "if a creature/permenant would be sent into a graveyard..." abilities

It would only interact with one of those replacement effects however, because after the first is applied, it is no longer going to the graveyard, so the rest won't get applied.

[edit]OMG! The delete button finally worked![/edit] I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

2/2/2009 9:40:00 AM

rain

Threads Started: 46
Forum Posts: 439
Magic Decks: 46
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 0
Skill Level: Unknown

Fair enough grimmer, but isnt the equipped or enchanted statement kind of extraneous since he can't be targeted to start with?

Also, last time I take someone elses word on the text of a card I suppose. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

2/2/2009 9:47:00 AM

EllE

Threads Started: 3
Forum Posts: 459
Magic Decks: 39
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 24
Skill Level: Unknown

No, it isn't redundant.
If the creature gains proctection from the Aura/Eqipped permanent, they will be un-attached(fall off). Auras will go to the graveyard.

Moo.

2/2/2009 10:37:00 AM

Grimmer

Threads Started: 2
Forum Posts: 570
Magic Decks: 0
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 0
Skill Level: Expert

Also, if an aura is put into play (via Replenish, for example) you then put it on a creature. This "skips" the targeting that playing auras usually does and allows you to Confiscate a creature that can't be the target of spells/abilities like Empyrial Archangel. This can't be done to Progenitus because of the protection from everything.

As EllE mentions, if you play something like Sudden Spoiling and equip/enchant the Progenitus while the protection is gone, they will fall off once the Sudden Spoiling effect wears off. I killed your cat! (Why?) I felt it would bring closure to our relationship!

2/2/2009 11:29:00 AM

Eppek the Goblin

Profile Image

Threads Started: 28
Forum Posts: 330
Magic Decks: 2
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 20
Skill Level: Unknown

Last night this situation came up in a game, and I was wondering what the proper ruling was.

My brother Dave had Mounted Archers in play enchanted with Gaseous Form. His opponent Joe had an army of big creatures including a Hunted Dragon, a Hunted Troll, and a Hunted Horror. Joe launched an attack with all his creatures. Dave paid enough white mana to block all of Joe's attackers. Gaseous Form reduces all the damage dealt to the Archers to 0, but how much trample damage does Dave take? Is it 4 or 7? I think I remember hearing somewhere that trample damage is always applied last, so I (being the eliminated player as impartial judge) decided Dave should take 7.

In the end it didn't matter. Dave took advantage of the Leyline of Singularity Joe had played to discard a second Mounted Archers to his Dralnu's Pet, Terrored Joe's dragon and handily won the game (he was at 50 or so life after Soul Linking my Spiritmonger. But I still wanted to know if this was the correct ruling.

2/2/2009 11:51:00 AM

Dennis

Threads Started: 23
Forum Posts: 204
Magic Decks: 42
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 7
Skill Level: Advanced

From the Comp Rules:

502.9e When there are several attacking creatures, it’s legal to assign damage from those without trample so as to maximize the damage of those with trample.
Example
A 2/2 creature with an ability that enables it to block multiple attackers blocks two attackers: a 1/1 with no special abilities a 3/3 with trample. The attacking player could assign 1 damage from the first attacker and 1 damage from the second to the blocking creature, and 2 damage to the defending player from the creature with trample.

The damage from the other creatures would have been enough to kill the Mounted Archers (though it's being prevented), so the Hunted Horror's trample damage can be maximised to 7.

2/2/2009 5:23:00 PM

DEVIL JAY

Threads Started: 0
Forum Posts: 64
Magic Decks: 13
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 18
Skill Level: Unknown

Do PRO WHITE creatures suffer the WRATH of GOD? Rate and comment on my decks. Some of them aren't completely terrible. I will return the favor. . . Have a JEVIL DAY!!!

2/2/2009 5:27:00 PM

The Analyst and the Skeptic

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 0
Forum Posts: 90
Magic Decks: 4
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 64
Skill Level: Intermediate

Yes Pro White Creatures suffer Wrath of God because it's a destroy effect and it's "not" targeting...

2/2/2009 5:28:00 PM

The Analyst and the Skeptic

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 0
Forum Posts: 90
Magic Decks: 4
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 64
Skill Level: Intermediate

Could u use Vedalken Mastermind's effect on an evoked creature (bounce it back to your hand)?

2/2/2009 5:45:00 PM

FiremÆne

Threads Started: 45
Forum Posts: 2211
Magic Decks: 81
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 120
Skill Level: Expert

Yes, since protection only causes D.E.B.T. For this example, assune the creature has Protection from White.

D: Prevent all damage white sources would deal to the card
E: The card cannot be equipped or enchanted by any white card, and all white enchantments/equipment fall off the card.
B: The card cannot be blocked by White creatures (assuming the card is a creature)
T: The card cannot be the target of spells or abilities of White cards and permanents.

If a card doesn't do one of these things (like WoG), then it still affects the card. MTG Lvl 1 Judge and one of your MTGFanatic Moderators! Birds of Paradise Count: 28

2/2/2009 5:47:00 PM

FiremÆne

Threads Started: 45
Forum Posts: 2211
Magic Decks: 81
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 120
Skill Level: Expert

You can use the Mastermind's effect to bounce an evoked creature. Evoke is a triggered ability that triggers when the creature comes into play if it's evoke cost was paid. With the trigger on the stack, you could respond by returning the evoked creature to your hand. MTG Lvl 1 Judge and one of your MTGFanatic Moderators! Birds of Paradise Count: 28

2/2/2009 6:35:00 PM

rain

Threads Started: 46
Forum Posts: 439
Magic Decks: 46
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 0
Skill Level: Unknown

No, you have to pay the same ammount for each X. Spells with 2 X's in their cost have to have the same value of X. Comment on my Mono B rogues and my G/B combo decks please ;D

2/2/2009 9:10:00 PM

Vincent Mahoney

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 66
Forum Posts: 1255
Magic Decks: 81
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 50
Skill Level: Unknown

To clarify:

To counter 1cc spells with Chalice of the Void- Pay 2 mana. 2cc- pay 4 mana. 3cc- pay 6. I'm not the most intelligent person on this site, but I'll sure as hell speak as if I am.

2/2/2009 11:14:00 PM

DonQuixote

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 0
Forum Posts: 136
Magic Decks: 5
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 18
Skill Level: Advanced

Chalice of the void gets a single number that it effects (the X in question) The same X is used in all places on the card. So..... X for CMC to counter, X for first half of cost X for second half of cost and all three Xs are identical. Fortune favors the prepared mind

2/3/2009 1:46:00 AM

The Planeswalker

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 59
Forum Posts: 3921
Magic Decks: 174
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 61
Skill Level: Unknown

how does phasing work?

2/3/2009 5:47:00 AM

EllE

Threads Started: 3
Forum Posts: 459
Magic Decks: 39
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 24
Skill Level: Unknown

Complicated, in my opinion.
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Phasing Moo.

2/3/2009 1:41:00 PM

DallasM

Threads Started: 78
Forum Posts: 1841
Magic Decks: 270
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 136
Skill Level: Advanced

Master Transmuter question:

Have Executioner's Capsule and MT in play. I sacrifice the capsule. Can I bounce it back to my hand with Master Transmuter while the Capsule's ability is on the stack and still destroy a creature?

I hope so. Theoretically, I could put it right back into play with Transmuter and kill another one :) Would this all work? ::Author of MTGfanatic's Every Card Counts column:: ::Watch for a new article every friday!::

2/3/2009 2:18:00 PM

Dennis

Threads Started: 23
Forum Posts: 204
Magic Decks: 42
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 7
Skill Level: Advanced

When you sacrifice the capsule to use its ability, it'll be in the graveyard and so you will not be able to use it to pay for Master Transmuter's ability cost, which says return from play.

2/3/2009 2:27:00 PM

persephony

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 2
Forum Posts: 51
Magic Decks: 2
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 67
Skill Level: Unknown

Few questions please. going to guess answers on all these based on how we have played them.

Can double strike stack, like having more than one kinsbaile cavalier out at once? no?

if spiritmonger 6/6 blocks another creatuer that is 6/6 does it get the +1/+1 counter keeping it alive after combat? yes?

Can you move equipment from one creature to another during your turn by paying the cost and basically re-equipping it? yes?

Can creatures with summoning sickness be tapped by other cards effects, and can they tap themselves if their ability doesnt have the tap in it,. For example Nullmage sheperd, or conspire effects? yes?

If i have a creature with enchantments and a +1/+1 counter on it leave game, does it come back to play with all of them still?

2/3/2009 2:29:00 PM

J@irusPerfect

No Profile Image

Threads Started: 1
Forum Posts: 65
Magic Decks: 7
WOW Decks: 0
Decks Rated: 1
Skill Level: Unknown

question on "Saffi eriksdotter", can saffi target itself to come back in play when she was incinirated to the graveyard. example: saffi was incinirated then i sacrifice saffi and targeted herself to comeback to play